[LouCastle]

Originally Posted by selzer

All of my dogs are well trained without any type of correction collar. I can take them to parks and run them off-lead. Their recall is excellent. I have called them off of actively chasing rabbits, and they have complied, no problem.

Some reason you feel the need to tell us this? I don't see how it has anything to do with the topic under discussion.

Originally Posted by selzer

If I had a dog that could not be called off, prey drive too high to listen to my recall, I would not give them the opportunity to run after something in the road. That is simple.

So in other words you'd manage them. As any reasonable person knows since management depends on humans to do things; it always will break down. NO ONE on the planet always does everything perfectly. And so one day you, or someone else. will leave a gate open. You, or someone else, will forget to securely lock or close it. You or someone else will not put a collar on correctly and a dog will pull out of it. A leash will break. The dog will pull it out of your hand. If you deny these things can happen, you'll be lying. If they haven't happened yet, it's just a matter of time.

And when it does you dogs (perhaps not the ones you own at this moment) will be off to do as they please. If your methods are so ineffective that the dogs have not successfully be trained not to chase they will, if they come across the right situation.

Originally Posted by selzer

As for my solar powered fence that is connected to my back gate, I have been zapped by it numerous times. The dogs stay away from it. But it is not there for when I am with them. It is there in the event that I did not latch a kennel gate properly and my dog is now in the yard. They stay away from my fences and my gates. It is a last defence agaist the possibilty that one of my dogs might get out and running around loose in my neighborhood can easily get a dog killed by farmers, hunters, and cars in the roadway. It has nothing whatsoever to do with training the dog. It has to do with containing the dog when you are not home to supervise.

You've simply made the decision that your use of a charged fence is OK but using an Ecollar is not. The fact remains that your fence puts out over a half million times more power than an Ecollar used as I advocate. It's a hypocritical view at best.

Originally Posted by selzer

An e-fence or a cattle fence is not how I am containing my dogs, they are contained in kennels. Only if they got out of a kennel would they ever be in my fenced area. [Emphasis added]

And so we can see that "if they got out of a kennel" they'd be exposed to the charged fence. It's pretty funny that you're in denial about this obvious fact! The fact that you use it only as a last defense does not change the fact that you do, in fact, use it. So that you can feel good about yourself, you use the excuse that it's "only" a "last resort containment." The obvious fact is that it's still there and it's still in use. Use whatever rationalization makes you feel good but you should simply admit that you're using a charged fence that puts out LOTS more power than an Ecollar used as I advocate, instead of hiding behind a rationalization.

Originally Posted by selzer

I am an electrical engineer and know about Alternating Current and Direct Current, I have been zapped with both times more times than I want to think about. And I know why and how each is dangerous. I may just have a little more understanding of this than the knowledgeable Lou Castle.

Perhaps and perhaps not. But AGAIN this has nothing to do with the subject of discussion. It's already been shown that you're living in denial of the reality that you use a charged fence, something that puts out FAR MORE power than an Ecollar. Somehow you think that's OK but using an Ecollar is not. Can you say "double standard?"

Originally Posted by selzer

There have probably been more deaths due to stun guns run from batteries, than from electric fences, but whatever.

Please provide support for this statement. Without it, it's just another worthless opinion.

In any case, it's an apples and oranges comparison. A stun gun is meant to incapacitate a person by "short circuiting" the electrical pulses that control his muscles and a charged fence is meant to cause pain to whoever or whatever touches it. Two COMPLETELY different ends. AGAIN your statement has nothing to do with the topic under discussion. Just another diversion! lol.

And let's not forget that your fence charger runs from batteries. The solar cells don't provide direct power to the fence, all they do is keep the batteries charged so you don't have to plug it into the mains.

Originally Posted by selzer

Perhaps the Knowledgeable Lou

Wondering how you'd feel if I was to start calling you "the ignorant selzer?" Your rudeness and sarcasm are obvious and you always go this way in these discussion because you're unable and/or unwilling to stay professional and polite. But it's exactly what I'd expect from someone who spends so much of their time in denial and hypocrisy.

Originally Posted by selzer

is not trying to convert

No "perhaps" about it. I've said as much quite clearly. AGAIN, I'm just pointing out your logical fallacies. There are lots of them.

Originally Posted by selzer

and not trying to annoy,

I pretty much don't care whether you're annoyed or not. As long as you live in a fairy land and try to influence others I'll point out where you're wrong.

Originally Posted by selzer

but I think he should stop suggesting that MY dogs are not trained, because MY dogs ARE trained

Please point out where I've said that your dogs are not trained. This is commonly known as a Strawman Argument. You attribute to your opponent, a position that he's NEVER taken and then condemn him for it. ANOTHER of your logical fallacies!

Originally Posted by selzer

and have been trained without the use of his nasty little gadgets.

Only a rude person with an agenda would call an Ecollar a "nasty little gadget."